What if it's more than genetics?

[XNavyDrummer]

It's easy to write of the "best of the best of the best" as just the chosen gifted. But what if it's more than that. What if it's just plain boring hard work to get to the playing level of our heroes?

When I taught at the Armed Forces School of Music. I'd see some real average drummers, bust their tails and shed like crazy. Then in a few months I'd see these guys playing way above the level that they started at. It always seemed like a small miracle. And, I'd see this happen over and over.

So what if you took an average drummer and put him through the same practice regimen of a Vinnie or a Dave...what would be the end result in a month, or in a year?

When PocketPlayer quoted Vinnie about the "...few willing to commit themselves to the task". It sounds like he's talking about just plain hard work.

Obviously, this hard work would need to be intelligently guided.

[FuseU1]

...absolutely right dead-on, guy ....

[FuseU1]

... I would add 1 more thing, right in line w/ what Navy's sayin ... guys like VC, DW [& all the many others, includ'g many who are not necessarily that well-known / in the 'mainstream'] had & have the sheer drive & determination; meaning, the sheer LOVE of the art & craft of music to propel their diligence, perserverance & hard work ... you just know that these guys [& any serious musician, for that matter] couldnt WAIT to get behind their kit every day ....

[Steve Holmes]

I actually think that your anatomy does play a part. I think it contributed to Buddy's freakish abilities as well as Dennis's.

[FuseU1]

... hmmm, could be, AW ... & another factor could be that 1 day God decided he'd put 1 of-if-not-THE most pre-disposed, butt-kickin drummin fools on da planet [& I'm really NOT bein sarcastic, here!] .... Genetics, in VC's case [besides the obvious diligent, hard work] - a contribut'g factor, maybe? - hmmmm ... barrrreey in-tarrrresteeng.....

[beats]

my teacher,my students,and myself often talk about that."what if its more than....". we all came 2 a conclusion that its an even mix of factors,most of which were mentioned in above posts. 3 drummers pop into my head immediatly whenever this is talked about.vinnie,buddy,and tony.all talented(freakishly at that),and all w. diff. backgrounds. my people here in canada,believe that the "chosen ones" all had a common thread-just a supreme natural talent in the first place,and its what they did w. that talent that took them 2 nether regions of their art.the combined efforts of a deep deep love of drums,great teachers,great ears/imagination,discipline,and,to me the most important......conceptualization of there approach 2 drumset.that word, concept, really moved me when i was reading the tony williams memorial MD issue.it was used soo many times when other drummers were describing tony.and it made total sense 2 me-if u have any semblence of aptitude on drumset,and u really practice and work hard,and keep your studies and music listening wide open;u start "hearing" things that start the basis of your concept.all our favourite drummers DO have a concept or a manifesto 4 thier playing,some more obvious than not. its endlessly is fascinating 2 me 2 pick things out of a drummers playing,and try 2 guess their concept.i think once u have that (a vision/clear concept) everything else becomes crystalline clear.it becomes clear what the necessary steps one MUST take to elevate this artform.

[FuseU1]

... well, all-rrrightey, then - cool post, beats! [not that it matters that i applaud ya .... LOL]

[davfrancis]

Hmmmmm genetics, interesting theory.

I will say this though:

By putting a particular person's skill down to genetics you're implying that you may never be able to achieve the same level. ie - "they are the anointed one, I am a lowly maggot"

This is a kind of self sabotage really and by subscribing to that point of view you are telling yourself - "i will never acieve greatness as I am not blessed with that gift."

Personally I like to think in terms of positives eg - It is in my power to achieve greatness. It may require discipline but it is in my power. I think that the greatest gift a teacher can give a student is to help them realise thier human potential. Once the student has a vision, the teacher can help guide them along the path to success, but without the vision both teacher and student are left wandering around in the dark.

The genetics question sabotages your vision of mastery/greatness.

Does this make sense? Or is it cosmic, new age BS? I dont know but it seems to work for me.... any responses?

[FuseU1]

... naw, guy, youre right as well; actually, you've hit in a nutshell. It really boils down to the hard work & vision thing. But that's given you have the 'ear' for this type of thing. I mean, have u ever run across any individual who readily admits that they wouldnt be able to play any instrument, or whatever. It seems some people just dont have it in them to be or to want to be mucicians [but that doesnt mean that they cant ENJOY it, of course]. But, that's a fundamental & necessary fact of the 'living diagnostic.' All of us have diff bags. That's why I dont concern myself w/ stackin who against who, because guys like the ones we talk about here all play somewhat differently, have their own unique concepts & phrasing, & bring their own indiv. approach to the table.
Now, obviously [& obviously arguably!], not all players are at the same level. Some are obviously advanced to a very high level, like those guys we mention here. But in THEIR cases [these 'gifted, chosen few'], while HARD WORK [long, steady, disciplined hours of practice, play'g, & listen'g] & vision/goals ARE the MAJOR determin'g factors, i will say that OTHER factors may have played KEY roles as well; such as:
A] being born into a musical family; i.e., a family w/ 1 or more professional [or otherwise] musicians in it;
B] start'g off at a very young age [averag'g between 5 & 9] - altho this is not always the case, it often IS the rule & NOT the exception];
C] hav'g really good pro-active, positive guidance & encouragement [by a teacher, family member, or mentor w/ a good study/work ethic]; & -
D] exposure to many or all styles of music fr. early on [AWA exposure to the 'best of the best' in music.]

[Pewit]

Really interesting topic/question.

In my opinion it all comes down to hard work. If someone were to shed 10 hours per day, he'd eventually "get there". The more "natural talent" - the faster he'd progress. I think it's as simple as that.

On the other hand - to reach the Vinnie&Dave-plateau... well, that's a whole another story. But throw in enough practice (and that would be A LOT), and you'd get there.

That's what I think.